How to leverage Web3, NFTs, and virtual reality in your speaking business

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Looking for practical advice and training from the world’s most successful speakers? The Speaker Lab Podcast features business tactics, tips, and strategies from the world’s most successful speakers. We post transcripts of every episode as resources to help you build your speaking business.

Grant: Welcome back to The Speaker Lab Podcast! Glad you’re joining us. For Episode 407 we have Mr. Terry Brock making his third appearance and actually I’m excited about today’s topic.

Now, virtual speaking becomes very commonplace today in the post pandemic world that we are in. But at the time we recorded it was literally a couple weeks before the pandemic really hit, especially here in the US, and we were talking about the concept of virtual speaking. So all to say, you were on the cutting edge then and I expect you to be on the cutting edge now as we talk about today’s topic. So Terry, thanks for joining us on that. Welcome back to the program, man. We’re glad you’re here.

Terry: Grant, it is wonderful to be with you.

Grant: All right. So today we’re going to be talking about the idea of Web3 and how it’s impacting speakers specifically as relates to things like NFTs. And these are things that have certainly been in the media a lot in the past several months. They’ve been around for a little while now, and there’s just a lot of buzz and it’s hard to separate the signal from the noise and determine what’s real, what’s not, or is it just hype? Is there substance to this and really specifically today we’re talking about how this impacts speakers? This is one thing I’ve been personally kind of fascinated by Web3 and crypto, and kind of trying to understand where this is going, but also trying to understand how this intersects with speakers and thought leaders and experts.

And so you and I were catching up at a conference recently, and this is something I know you’ve gone deep down the rabbit hole on. I said, “Hey man, let’s just talk about this for people and see where we go. So first of all, can you kind of paint the picture of Web3, NFTs and crypto? What are we talking about here and just set the table for us.

Defining Web3, NFT, Cryptocurrency & Virtual Reality

Terry: Yeah. And we have a full 16 hours for this. Is that right Grant? [Haha.] We’ll condense it now, but we’ll have some fun with it. It’s huge, and it is huge for speakers as a speaker myself.

I’ve been doing this since 1983, so for a couple years now. You know, I feel like I’m still in the second week of kindergarten still, so I feel like I’ve got a long way to go. We’re just getting started off, but this whole business of Web3 and the cryptocurrencies, NFTs, and virtual reality have enormous ramifications for speakers.

For those of us who make a living by using the spoken word to help people, we mainly did those standing on a stage with a microphone. People were there in person and we spoke, we wouldn’t think of having to use a mask. Well, we know the world has changed.

And so the world changed because of the pandemic and all that. And many of us have learned the importance of virtual and using video. Zoom has now become the technology we use and it’s got enormous ramifications for those of us who are speakers, right?

The NFTs in particular have some possibilities for us to get involved with our community and to build that community and enhance value to them in ways that we had never thought of before. And it goes into jaw dropping, oh my goodness, how are we going to do that?

When you’re getting people involved in you and buying into who you are – your community — it’s important and NFTs are already playing an integral part in that. So for people who aren’t familiar with that, it’s confusing and they wonder what exactly is an NFT.

Well, it’s called a non-fungible token. When you go back to the word fungible, fungible means you can exchange it. It works well. If I said, “Hey Grant, I’ve got a $10 bill here. You’ve got two fives. Could I exchange that for you?” You go, “Sure, Terry, here we go.” And as long as they’re not counterfeit, no problem at all. But if I had another $10 bill or this $10 bill or that one, it really wouldn’t matter. They’re all pretty much the same. They are fungible.

Something that is non-fungible is something one of a kind, something like your home address. It is unique to where you are. There’s nothing like it anywhere on the planet. There are some similarities with other houses maybe in your neighborhood or elsewhere, and there might be some similarities, but yours is unique.

Like we use the example, the Mona Lisa is a portrait that is over in the Louvre in Paris. There is only one of those. If someone were to steal that and I know they make it very hard for them to do it, and we’re not recommending that, but if they did that, there would be a certain price on that. There would be a certain value.

So a very high Euro mark or dollar mark, whatever it would be because there’s only one, but I can go over there. You and I could go over there and we could take our families and go visit and walk by. And like many tourists, taking a picture of it, not a big deal. And we might think, well, that picture we took — that’s kind of the same, isn’t it?

No, because you don’t have the ownership of the Mona Lisa. You know, we have a picture much like a baseball card. They only make so many Mickey Mantle baseball cards. And if you can get one and there’s value to it, people ascribe value to that. You say, okay, that is something that is non-fungible. That’s something that can’t be duplicated real easily.

Or it is a token. And now the way we register that is with something called a blockchain database that keeps a record of what happened. So let’s say I wanted to get a signed autograph book from you. And I know there’s only so many of these books that are out there and I know it’s going to be worth something, I could get that signed on the blockchain.

We could put that in the code — that would be immutable and could not be changed. And we would know the date, the time, how much it was when we did that, all of the ramifications of it. And this is where we have a lot of possibilities with NFTs. Those non-fungible tokens can be ascribed to many things like for instance a song where a band that could record a song would now be able to say, okay going forward, we’re gonna sell this NFT of our song.

We’re going to have the NFT, which is really not a physical object. It’s just the record. That’s on the blockchain. We’re going to say that this song is worth “X” dollars. And someone could buy it and then if they sell it in the future, it can be used over and over.

[With regards to payment and the song example] We know that 2% of it is now going to go to the drummer and we’re going to give 5% to the guy that played the piano because he did a good job. And that person that sang, she was really good. We’re going to give her 10% of the income going forward, whatever you want to put into the contract, and that’s what it would be.

And that way they’re going to get paid. Going forward, no matter what you think. These become something that is available for people, and we can make sure that people are getting paid, usually it would be a cryptocurrency going forward, which can then be redeemed into US dollars, Euros, or whatever form of currency you want.

What is a Never-Ending Ticket?

Terry: But where it really has ramifications, and this is incredible Grant, when you and I look at it as a speaker, going forward you can make this a part of your meetings. You can make this a part of your community as a speaker.

Gina, my partner and fiance are heading to Phoenix in a couple of weeks and we’re going to be going to a place where we purchased not quite an NFT, but very similar. They took a little nuance on this and they’re calling it an NET, a never-ending ticket and that never-ending ticket gets us into the meeting in Phoenix, no big deal.

You and I, for a long time, we go to conferences, we pay a fee. We go there, we enjoy it, we might take some pictures. We might keep a stub of it as a souvenir of when we went to that conference, but you see with the never-ending ticket they have clearly stated that when you buy you can go to every event we have from now on forever, and you come in and there’s no charge for this.

And you think, “Whoa, that’s kind of nice.” Well then that’d be good for me to get it now. Would I pay a little bit more for that ticket than I would for the regular ticket? Let’s say the regular ticket costs $1 and the never-ending ticket is $3. Well, if I knew that I really liked this person, I believed in what they said, I might want to do that. And then, the speaker might agree to something like this – to sweeten the pot, here’s what we’re going to do – we’re going to have a meeting every first Monday of the month where we’re going to deal with a really important issue to you. And we’re going to give you access to that as long as you have that never- ending ticket. Oh. And by the way, if you get tired of it and think, “Hey, I’m gonna move on to something else,” you can sell that never-ending ticket to someone else who might buy it for whatever the market would say.

Kinda like a stock price. The stock could go up. It could go down, could go to nothing. But at least if you paid for that never-ending ticket, you were able to go there and enjoy all the benefits that are there and what we’re going to out in Phoenix is going to be a content exposition even that Joe PSI is putting together.

He’s been very active in content marketing. This is where he is living. Now, this is what he is doing, building this out so that if you have one token from them, then you might be able to do this. If you have two or three or five, whatever the number would be, you can go backstage and talk to the guest.

And if you have this many, we’ll do a podcast with you. If you have this many we’ll work with you and build out your program for it. So you think of all that we do as speakers, we coach, we advise, we write, we speak — we do a host of different things.

Think about how, Grant, you could take the many things that you are doing. You could then break those up into different pieces. So if you have a “Grant coin” or a “Grant NFT,” you would be able to take that “Grant NFT” and for one I get this, but if I have three of those and only those that have three “Grant coins” can get in and do these other things, then that starts making sense all the way around.

You’re not just trying to sell events to a given place, but you’re building a community, and they will grow with you because they might want to say, “Hey I really like Grant. I’m gonna get 20 Grant coins because I think it could go up. And then if it goes up, I could turn around and sell two or three of them for even more than I paid for it.”

Now we’re not saying we’re not making any financial advice here at all because I’m not qualified to do that. There are others that do that.  But I am saying, “Hey, this is something that I’m encouraging you to look into. I’m making strong, educational advice to look into that.”

So that’s kind of a big picture of where it’s going right now, and I think it’s just flat out exciting and fun.

Is This All Here to Stay?

Grant: Well, first of all, we appreciate you giving us that overview there, it raises a lot of questions. I know one of the common questions right now is wondering are NFTs – is this just a fad? Because it really only works if you have some significant adoption nd there’s a sub-level of adoption, but it also seems like there’s a lot of people just throwing up NFTs and a lot of what I tend to hear right now is that NFTs may work, may take a couple years, but a lot of the good projects will stick and then a high majority of them are going to fall apart. And so I guess it’s kind of like any hot thing, all of a sudden there’s too much buzz behind it to work. So what makes you confident this isn’t a fad and will have some staying power and stick around?

Terry: Grant, I think that is an excellent question because we need to ask that. So the journalist in me is saying that exactly what you said is this a fad, is it gonna go away?

Are we buying something that’s going to cost us a bazillion dollars now? And then next year it’s down to zero or whatever. Well, many of those NFTs are going to do that. Yes, many of them are and I’d have to agree with Gary Vaynerchuck. He said that 98% of the NFTs will go to zero, which isn’t good.

You know, that many going down, but what you want to do is if you look at it as a use case, the utility doesn’t look at it as a stock so much. If you look at it as, “Hey, if I get my hypothetical five Grant coins, and Grant is going to give me this personal attention, he’s going to work with me on creating my book, he’s going to let me come to this conference. He’s going to do all of the wonderful things that you offer and can offer in the future as services.” And if I have this many Grant coins I get to do each of those at different levels, now it’s a use, it’s a utility and that’s a keyword.

The utility, the real use I can get out of this, is incredibly valuable because even if it went to zero five years from now, I did get to go to that conference, and I had Grant help me on this, and I had Grant coach with me on this and that, and I could look at that as value I got in this special group.

Grant: You’ve alluded to a couple things here, but what would be some specific cases where speakers could be considering this? So if I’m a speaker and I’m doing 50 gigs a year and I’m doing a mix of coaching and consulting and books, and then in between things as well, how should I be thinking about NFTs or where would that potentially fit into the mix for me?

Terry: Yeah, I think that’s a good thing. Let’s get a little more nitty gritty. And of course, none of the things are locked in concrete. So I’m going to use some hypotheticals here. These are not financial recommendations and these are not real numbers; in fact, I’ll do it the NSA way that we often do at the National Speakers Association because of the federal trade commission. So let’s say we had bananas. And if I have five bananas, then I get a coaching session with Grant — a one hour coaching session once a month.

Hey, that sounds pretty good for five bananas, but I want even more than that. And so I’m gonna have Grant come here to Orlando, Florida where I live and I’m going to have him stay with me for a week, doing all kinds of things. Well, Terry, that’s going to cost you 125 bananas or whatever.

So with that many bananas we could do it or whatever the number is going to be. You come up with something like that. And I see that’s where speakers can use this. We start looking at the utility again, and put the emphasis on the utility of this. What kind of ways can I get access to you?

That is worth it to you because you’re getting these coins. And you realize at any point I could do that and then go out and sell them on the market. But that means also someone else has now purchased those. And by the way, you can build in there every time it is sold, you get 10% or 20% or whatever, and you control the number of Grant coins that you’re going to produce. And so there’s ways to do this, to make it really abundantly worthwhile and better for everyone — for the speaker who creates the content, who delivers the content in whatever form we’re going to use, and the communication and the people who are consuming that.

Grant: Yeah, that has enormous possibilities. So to be devil’s advocate though — I think conceptually we can all understand that and get that. On the other hand, if you were talking to a potential client and they’re wanting to hire you to speak and you would like to speak at their event — it’s going to be 100 Grant tokens. They might say, can we just pay you in US dollars? And sure, because there has to be an adoption of it on both sides of just understanding the utility of it. Because if I as a seller understand the utility, but there’s no market of the buyer who will understand or adopt it, then you really are in a one-sided marketplace.

So how are you seeing this being adopted within the marketplace for speakers and I guess events and event planners understanding this, grasping this, and seeing the value of this and saying, “Yeah, absolutely.”

Terry: What you’re talking about is sound economics. What you’re looking at is the same thing that we’ve looked at through the centuries. When people want at one point they wouldn’t take a stone, they wanted their barter. You know [for example], I’m going to give you five ears of corn and you’re going to give me a bag of tomatoes or whatever. And we did do that and that worked okay until we couldn’t do that. And we thought, well, wait I’ve already got all the tomatoes I want. What I really want is a horse. Well, you don’t have one, so how am I going to get that? So they came up with using some stones or something and what that stone will be worth. Then they realized, wait a minute, you could destroy that stone. Or it might be duplicated here. And then they came up with precious metals, gold, and that was pretty good for a while, but then people would only accept gold for a while or silver.

And then we decided to use paper and people said, “Wait a minute, I’m not going to accept that paper. How do I know that’s real?” Well, they had to go through that. So there was an acceptance that had to go through that with credit cards — same way. And now we’re seeing it with cryptocurrency, with Bitcoin and other cryptos.

Some people are paying for services and products with that. Others are a little bit leery of it. And yes, right now meeting planners are not jumping up and down saying, “Hey, we’ll buy, we’ll pay you in NFTs and we’ll give you NFTs or you’ll give us NFTs for this.”

And so I think obviously it’s not there right now. What we need to do right now as speakers is really start studying this a little bit, go to some places on the net like and another good site to go to is Start looking at what is available and who’s talking.

NFTs and particularly crypto — and I think particularly in light of, as we’re recording this Grant — our world is in a rather precarious place, more than any other time in your life or my life. And we’re seeing a war going on, literally with Russia and Ukraine as we’re recording this. And we’re also seeing inflation that is already kicked off at a 40 year high. That means people are losing money. If you hold cash and you keep it in your mattress, you’ve lost a lot of money, right? According to the last US government statistics, last month you lost 8.5%. That adds up. And there’s other places where it’s even more when you’re buying a car. We’re seeing 30 to 40% inflation on buying a car.

And so people are saying, wait a minute, what is going on with this? And that’s where cryptocurrency comes. And other currencies that we will accept that will give me utility. And again, no financial recommendation here. Am I saying that enough, by the way, for the lawyers? No financial recommendations here, but strong educational recommendations!

As people accept it, which is what they have to do. Your point, I think, is spot on that they’ve got to accept it. If I look at that and someday it could come where you are offering me a bolivar from Venezuela and I don’t want that. I’m not going to give you a meal at my restaurant for a bolivar, you know, yet at one time that was accepted.

And they could print those off. But now in Venezuela, people are saying, we don’t want that. We want either US dollars, but now they’re leaning more and more toward Bitcoin. And they’ll say, we’ll take Bitcoin because we know Bitcoin is backed up by mathematics, not by some central banker saying, “We’ll just print off another 6 trillion of these things.”

Because when you do that, guess what happens to the price? That old supply and demand thing kicks in again, right? You got so much supply and a demand that’s not there. And so it goes down. So we touched on this at the beginning of our conversation. A few years ago when we were talking about virtual speaking at that time virtual speaking wasn’t really a common thing.

And it wasn’t really something that speakers paid attention to, wasn’t something event planners paid attention to, and this all felt very similar. You know, we can all conceptualize it.

Grant: At one time we couldn’t understand virtual speaking — it just wasn’t a real common thing.

And so at the time it took a global situation to all of a sudden bring virtual to the forefront. Now that may or may not happen for crypto and NFTs to come to the forefront in terms of a global currency, especially in the speaking industry, but how far out do you think we are from just being pretty commonplace for speakers to be able to issue their own tokens or issue their own coins and for those tokens or coins to be used in exchange for buying that speaker’s book or booking that speaker for a gig or coaching or consulting. How far are we talking, you know a year or two, are we talking a decade or what? What’s in your magic crystal ball, what are you seeing?

Terry: Well, my crystal ball is broken. The batteries are down on that right now, but I can tell you it’s already being done and it already has been done.

We’re seeing this has happened at that conference I mentioned Gina and I are going to in a couple weeks out in Phoenix. They’re already doing it. Yeah. So we have purchased the never-ending ticket to go there. And so now we know Joe has really good material, he’s just a genius when it comes to content creation and he’s got some incredibly brilliant and wonderful speakers coming in. That is worth a lot to us. And the fact that now we’ve got this never-ending ticket and I can go back next year and we can go back if they do something in the fall on this, or go here, or we can get on this video conference with them when only those who have X number of tokens can do it. We’re seeing that happen right now. Others are using this the same way. They’re getting their NFTs and growing, and we’re seeing it really taking off right now, already.

How long will it be before it hits widespread use? That I don’t know, but I do know, and I hope that the US dollar will stay strong and can be a currency for the reserve of the world. But I don’t know what it will be. I’m not saying that it won’t be, but I’m saying there are people way, way smarter than me that are saying, “Hey, something is going on here. That doesn’t look as good.” I listen to guys like Dave Ramsey who I really respect a lot and what he talks about. And he makes a lot of good points. He recommends finding out what is sound and what really will work.

It’s really a critical point right now in our history. And I wish that it was the way that it was for me growing up. The US was supreme. Oh, wow, it’ll be great forever. Well, that’s what all the great empires said throughout history.

And, uh, where are those Roman empires? Where’s the Gian empire? Where are those? The great British empire? They all thought we we’re going to be here forever. And then they fell. Not saying the US will, but I’m saying time to learn about some other things as well right now.

Grant: So you mentioned this never ending ticket as an example of being able to buy it.

It holds utility for an extended period of time, more than just like a one-off type of event. But what does it look like if you, because it continues to retain value even after the initial event, how would you go about selling that? What does that typically look like? What are the marketplaces like for something like that, to be able to sell on a secondary market?

Terry: Yeah. Good question. There’s places where you can go like, it’s another place and they’re more and more springing up all the time that are available to say, “Hey, you’ve got an NFT. You bought it for this amount of money. This is what it is worth today. We can exchange that for you.”

Now you will have fees. And here’s where it’s a little bit complicated right now. And I see enormous entrepreneurial opportunities for this. You will pay fees in what they call gas fees, right? The gas fees that will be there using a coin called Ethere. Which is another cryptocurrency it’s similar to, but also different from Bitcoin.

And they’re probably, as we’re recording this now, 15 – 16,000 crypto coins out there. Many of the coins are not good. Many of the coins are.

And I don’t know which ones are or are not — you could still go to those marketplaces and you could do that. So it’s going to take a little bit of work right now, a little bit of going through to make it happen. And I think that as entrepreneurs come up with ways to make that smoother and easier and more transparent, the better off we’ll be.

I remember I got started with Bitcoin in 2014, and I’ve spoken about it in different places around the world as an emcee for a lot of conferences. And it’s a really exciting place to be, but it’s really up and down, topsy turvy and is very, very volatile. But we remember seeing what it was like at other points in time that it would lose its value or it would go up.

What we need to do is to find ways that it’s simple and now we have that. In the country of El Salvador, Bitcoin is legal currency. That it’s profound. That means you can go into a store and you can buy goods that you want — groceries, clothes, you can go to a restaurant, use Bitcoin, and you’ll be able to do, and it operates fast because they put a technology on top of it called the lightning network that makes it very rapid because with Bitcoin by itself, it could take 15 to 20 minutes or longer. Now with lightning, they’re able to use it today in El Salvador and many other places around the world.

Grant: Now I know that there are going to be some speakers here who want to keep going down this rabbit hole and want to create their own Grant token, or figure out what the utility of this looks like for me as a speaker. And so what are, if people wanted to go down the rabbit hole further, what are some potential resources or places to look or YouTube channel sites — anything that you’ve found to be particularly valuable, or even examples of speakers who are doing this well, and that we should be keeping our eye out for?

Terry: Well, I think the first thing you want to do is what you and I are already doing, and every speaker listening to this is doing…build your community. If you don’t have that community of people that love you, it won’t matter if you have a Terry coin and nobody wants to come or whatever it’s gonna be.

You wanna make sure you build that community. And then what you want to do is make sure that you can go to a place where you can learn about it and you can then invest in the right coins.

Have someone help you to go through that process as you build your community, Then you start looking at what you can do to help them out and start finding ways where they need help and you can add value. And I think as we do that, we’re going to do a lot better and we’ll be able to start accumulating both the knowledge and the skillset to make sure we can implement those.

Grant: Before we wrap up, I think you do a good job of looking around the corner to see what’s coming up. And so we talked about virtual speaking today, we’ve talked about NFTs and Web3, but in addition, just even outside of the crypto world and outside of Web3, what are things that you see coming down the pike in the next 5-10 years? Things that speakers need to be aware of potential changes in the marketplace, potential shifts and things that we should be considering or getting ready for in our own speaking business.

Terry: A whole lot out there. And matter of fact, that’s one of the things we talk about on my YouTube channel, which I shameless plug, go to a Agora Entrepreneurs — I talk about that a lot, a couple of things that are happening right now, not just five to 10 years from now, but right now, happening virtual.

And with virtual reality, a lot of it is encompassed with people talking about the Meta. People are using that for training. People are using that for learning and for meetings. You can register for these conversations on my website — we just finished a session a little while ago on virtual reality, specifically for speakers and how speakers will be able to use and think about possibilities when leading training.

I would say for speakers, put that in the back of your mind, there is going to be an enormous amount of money, billions of dollars, that people are going to be spending in the next 5-10 years on virtual reality specifically as it relates to speaking training and helping people in many different ways. And I think the most important thing that we do going forward is that we call ourselves CSPs and I don’t mean necessarily what the National Speakers Association says as certified speaking professionals.

Communicators who solve problems – if you can become a communicator, whether you’re writing, speaking, facilitating or you’re coaching all these kinds of things that we do, if you communicate that and you solve problems, you will always do well.

That’s quite a statement, but I’ll stand by that. You will always do well. If you solve those problems that others have. It goes way back to our buddy Zig Ziegler. Years ago he said, “You can get anything in life you want if you help enough other people.”

Grant: If people wanna find out more about you, what you’re up to. I know you mentioned the YouTube channel, but where can we go to check out what you’re up to?

Terry: Yeah, they can come over to my website, which is You’ll see all the information there on how to reach me. And I would love to talk to those who are interested in Web3, virtual reality, and NFT kinds of things. Let’s have some fun together and make the world a better place!

Grant: Terry, thanks for the time, man. Always enjoy hearing your insights and observations and look forward to seeing what the future holds for us.

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