Who do you speak to and what do you speak about?
My focus is leadership development, specifically speaking to HR leaders, since they’re the ones most focused on employee growth and leading the development of culture in their organizations. I niche down even further to focus on communication and team alignment.
I speak to executives on how to communicate effectively in the boardroom or with investors, and also on how to lead through change. A big part of my work is helping leaders understand their communication tendencies and how those impact team performance.
When people ask me what I do, I say: I help leaders build better worlds, one conversation at a time.
What led you to seek out The Speaker Lab in the first place?
I spoke for a long time in my previous career; I was a pastor for over 25 years. I spoke every week, led workshops around the world, spoke at conferences, and ran retreats. But a few years ago, as my career shifted, I knew I was entering a new world, and with that comes a lot to learn.
I joke that I actually stalked The Speaker Lab for a while before jumping in! I listened to the podcast, read Grant’s book, explored the website, and even spoke with a couple of former students. Eventually, I realized this was the next right step for me to build a speaking career. And it’s been the perfect complement to my work as a speaker, coach, and team consultant.
Did you have any fears or hesitations before joining the program?
Definitely. I wondered if I was going to be able to internalize it all. During onboarding, I looked at the curriculum and thought, There’s no way I’m going to get through this or figure it all out.
But I quickly found that the organization of the program, the consistent communication from The Speaker Lab, and the connection with the coaches made it all manageable.
Another fear I had was around the uniqueness of my message – Does it really matter? Is it unique enough? All the usual imposter syndrome stuff that comes up.
What shifted for me was not questioning my content so much, but asking: Can I show up vulnerably and authentically? The deeper I got into the SPEAK Framework, the more I realized I didn’t just want to get on stage and share information; I wanted to show up as my full self in every setting.
What were some of your biggest “aha” moments or key takeaways from the SPEAK Framework?
Two things really stood out: selecting a problem to solve and establishing my expertise.
As a pastor, I used to speak on a wide range of topics. But this program helped me focus and find the intersection of my deep passion and what the world truly needs. That alignment didn’t happen overnight; it took a lot of work, patience, and refinement.
For example, I could say I love onboarding new employees, but if that’s not my passion or there’s no market need for that talk, then no one’s going to hire me. I had to find that sweet spot—where my passion and audience demand meet—and still be true to myself. That was huge.
When I talk to others about The Speaker Lab, I mark those two things that made the program worth it.
How did you start to find that “sweet spot” between passion and market demand?
It was a mix of self-reflection and coaching. I started by noticing what topics I naturally came back to in conversations—what I was passionate about and good at.
I also tell my coaching clients: we tend to love doing what we’re good at. For me, that’s communication. I’ve always been fascinated by the power of words. Some people say keynotes are dying, but I disagree. We still pack out rooms to hear someone speak live.
So I started researching: Where is communication breaking down? Where is it ineffective or unhealthy? I matched that with my passion for helping teams communicate better, and that’s when things began to click.
Earlier you mentioned discovering the importance of authenticity on stage. Can you share more about that?
Absolutely. My mentor told me over 20 years ago that people can tell from 90 feet away within 90 seconds whether or not you’re authentic as a speaker. That always stuck with me.
I’ve made it my goal not to get up and speak and just fill a lot, or speak on something I haven’t done the work in. If someone else can speak better to a topic, I’ll let them take the stage. I did that a lot in my former role.
The world doesn’t need more polished performers; it needs more real humans on stage. We often chase this idea of “success,” but like Thomas Merton said, “We climb the ladder of success only to find it’s leaning against the wrong wall.”
I would rather climb the ladder of authenticity. That was drilled into me in my early twenties and it’s stuck with me. The best speakers I’ve seen aren’t always the most polished, but they speak from the heart. That’s what draws people in. That’s what connects.
What have been some of your results and standout moments as a speaker along the way?
I’m still on the front end of this new venture, and what I’ve realized is that it’s slow, sometimes agonizing work to show up every day and commit to building it. Building a business is always slow.
We often see the highlight reel once people have launched, but not the dedication that happens behind the scenes.
When I hear people like Erick talk, it’s clear that he’s not just crushing it; he’s consistent. He shows up for both the craft and the business every single day. For me, the biggest results so far have been building relationships, staying in touch even with people who didn’t book me, following up after events, and genuinely showing that I care about their success, whether they hire me or not.
For example, if I don’t get selected for a keynote, I still reach out to thank them and check in afterward to see how it went, putting that event on my calendar and following up. I care deeply about the work, and I want that to show.
Recently, I landed a speaking gig on communicating through change, and the standout moment came in the conversation with the event planner—really listening to what they needed and positioning my keynote to address those pain points. That’s when I really started gaining traction. If it’s not something I talk about, I don’t try to land the gig. But when it is, I make sure my talk speaks directly to their pain points.
I love that you named relationships as one of your biggest results. That’s such a great way to look at it because all of those will bear fruit in time.
When you are booking gigs, how does it feel to be making the impact you’re making and really operating in your sweet spot?
I’ve always said the conclusion of a talk should be the beginning of a conversation. Like a great film that makes you want to go out and talk with friends afterward.
For me, the impact isn’t measured in whether I crushed the keynote. It’s in the conversations that happen after I speak; those dialogues are where the real impact happens. Because someone trusted me with 60 minutes of airtime, I try to listen more than I speak in those follow-ups.
In leadership, I’ve learned that most people just want to be heard. So when I can engage and go a level deeper, it’s unbelievably fulfilling. I’m grateful that speaking gives me the chance to do that.
That’s awesome. So what’s your new normal looking like now?
I wish I could say I have that all nailed down, but honestly, I’m still figuring it out. I’ve been working with a coach to create new rhythms, like how to shut things down at the end of the day so I can be present with my family. It’s a challenge.
For anyone stepping into a new normal, I’d say: pay close attention to what’s changed and how you need to respond. We don’t usually evolve toward order; we tend to devolve into chaos unless we’re intentional.
How has your life changed through all of this?
It has and it hasn’t. It has in the sense that I now have more freedom in my daily life. But that freedom demands more discipline and intentionality.
When you’re in a company or organization, structure is given to you. Now I have to create that for myself. The more I discipline myself, the more freedom I actually experience.
It hasn’t changed in the sense that I’m still doing what I love—inspiring people to build better worlds and helping them thrive in business and in life.
Who would you recommend The Speaker Lab to? And what would you say to someone who’s on the fence?
I’d recommend it to people who don’t just have a message, but who believe in their message. The kind of person who feels like their message needs to get out there.
When I first dipped my toe into speaking, it felt overwhelming. But being part of TSL helped me learn how to navigate this big world, through online learning, self-guided work, and workshops – and I’m still learning.
In the moments I felt lost, the coaches were amazing. They responded so quickly and brought a ton of experience. I’ve never left one of those calls feeling like it was a waste of time.
So if you want to build a speaking business or increase visibility for the work you’re already doing, TSL is a great vehicle to help you get there with a community that supports you. And for the record, I’m not getting paid to say that!
I’ll definitely pass your feedback on to the coaches. They’ll love hearing it. Anything else you want to share?
I’ll just say one last thing: as someone who’s spoken for a long time, don’t let your message live externally. Let it do its work on you, too. The more it transforms you, the more it’ll resonate with your audience.
That’s a great closer. Thank you so much, Michael; I really appreciate your time.